Comments on: No, you could not have done it differently.

By: Heather the Great

Heather the Great — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:13:02 +0000

You and I learn, process, and grow so much alike, Kyeli! I completely needed this reminder. And I’ll remind you of other stuff, too. <3

By: _rck_

_rck_ — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:56:01 +0000

How about this approach, using a different vocabulary:

(1) Positive reinforcement is a more effective learning strategy than negative reinforcement.

(2) The way forward is praising oneself for acting differently now.

(3) Upbraiding oneself about past mistakes is negative reinforcement, as is fretting over ones level of perfection.

done done done?

By: Eirias

Eirias — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:03:05 +0000

Ever read Candide? This philosophy reminds me a little bit of Dr. Pangloss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide

By: Garreth Wilcock

Garreth Wilcock — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:59:41 +0000

The bigger the “mistake” the faster I learn!

Thanks for a thought provoking post.

By: Michael

Michael — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:30:52 +0000

Pace, I think we are the realm of definition collision.

I agree with the concept that you shouldn’t beat yourself up forever over hurting someone. That isn’t what I was saying. The “forever” part was added in your mind.

Likewise, y’all aren’t saying that you should ignore making amends for a wrong in favor of “moving on.” That was added in MY mind. I was trying to make a point of where this line of thought could be carried out to.

Ideally, one can recognize a mistake, and work to make amends – to try and make it right – without beating yourself up about it. In fact, I suspect that it would really hard to make it right while beating yourself up.

Beating yourself up is still making it all about you. Like the post from Oliver – the yoga partner was focused on what THEY did, how THEY could avoid doing it again, etc, ignoring the actual damage done, and why.

By: Oliver Danni

Oliver Danni — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:17:04 +0000

I experienced this today in class. We were practicing Thai yoga massage, and my classmate was practicing on me, and one of the stretches caused my right leg to pull. I realized in time that I needed him to let go of my leg to prevent an injury, and I said “Stop, I need you to drop my leg now!”…but he hesitated for a moment before letting go, and that was a moment too long. Afterwards, he was very upset and apologetic, and kept trying to figure out what he had done “wrong”. He asked the instructor to come over to help him figure out what he had done wrong, did the exact same move on the instructor, and it wasn’t a problem for the instructor’s leg. Meanwhile, I really was FINE…I mean, it hurt, I decided to sit out the rest of class and just observe to avoid injuring it again…but he hadn’t done anything which had limited my mobility or anything, he didn’t break anything, and it didn’t even happen because of anything he did wrong. Sometimes shit happens! It was interesting to observe, though, how attached he was to wishing that he had not hurt me and being sorry that he had…because I really wasn’t upset and didn’t really care that he had hurt me, I didn’t feel like he could have done anything differently. I think it scared him, because now he thinks that since he’s done this once he may do it again. But anybody could do something like that, seriously. It’s a risky activity, you do everything you can to minimize the risks, and then you accept that yes you might in fact hurt someone and if you’re unwilling to risk that, then you’re unwilling to offer the healing opportunity, too.

By: Pace

Pace — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:59:50 +0000

Michael,

I totally agree with you, and also totally disagree with you. Thinking to yourself “I made a horrible mistake”, beating yourself up about it, and regretting it for the rest of your life isn’t going to do anyone, including the person you hurt, any good. Thinking to yourself “I feel sad that I hurt someone with my actions”, learning from it, choosing to do something different in the future, and then moving on? That will do yourself and others much more good.

Regret and sorrow are these weird societally-obligated things we’re expected to feel if we want to be allowed to feel that we’re good people, but as for me, if someone hurt me, I’d vastly prefer they feel no regret but learn from it and choose differently in the future, instead of feeling lots of regret but not changing at all and continuing to do the same sorts of things in the future, to me or others. It’s like Honest Hal.

I think that what matters most is how much or how little we hurt others, not how much we beat ourselves up about it when we do.

(I’m not speaking for Kyeli here, though, and will be very curious to find out her thoughts on this.)

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:48:56 +0000

I understand the concept you are going for here – people beat themselves up of stuff they shouldn’t, all the time. But, this is dangerously close to abdicating responsibility for your actions.

“I’m not sorry I hurt you. I wouldn’t be who I am now, if I hadn’t have done that. It worked out great for me, so you should get over it.!”

Sometimes our action hurt others. Shrugging it off as anything less than a horrible mistake is trivializing the pain of others to lessen your own.

By: Toby

Toby — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:44:19 +0000

I’ve felt this way for a long time. :)

By: Joely Black

Joely Black — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:38:56 +0000

Once again, a really excellent post and very true.